Why do you want to become Nigeria’s president?
To answer that question, I think one should even go back to why I joined politics. I joined politics because I realised the way and manner people, especially the leaders at the time, were handling issues. They were handling things the wrong way. And I decided voluntarily to leave the civil service in 1991. I believed that instead of criticising or questioning what other people were doing, I should join politics and add to the credibility of the process. Most people believe that politics is a dirty game. For me, politics has never been a dirty game. It’s a very clean game. You can play it for decades without denting your image. And that’s the reason we are in politics, to clean the system, do the right thing and give the right example to others.
The biggest challenge the nation faces today is general insecurity. How do you intend to deal with banditry, kidnapping, terrorism, and other threats?
All these issues we are facing in this country are all intertwined. You cannot separate any from others. Right from the Goodluck Jonathan government, there were certain things that ought to have done but unfortunately not done; perhaps because of the lack capacity to understand them. And those gaps really created what we are seeing today. Based on my little experience in politics, I personally believe that most Nigerians are good people and sometimes one may argue that this is probably the easiest country to govern because the elasticity limit of a Nigerian is not comparable to that of anyone else in this world. One of the problems I realised with some of the past leaders in this country is lack of capacity for the job. Many people found themselves in power either by luck or by destiny. We have seen many leaders coming into leadership at the highest level and they don’t even understand the dynamics of the country. If you ask them what is happening in any state other than their own, they are not sure. If you don’t get it right in terms of leadership, the implication is that all other things will fail, including the security issues you mentioned. So, the issue of capacity is key and how to keep people together, how to bring all those concerned together. Now, the office of the commander-in-chief of the armed forces is critical. As Minister of Defence, I was in some African countries, especially Sierra Leone, Liberia, Sudan to meet our military, to see how they were operating. In those countries, the people had a lot of confidence in our soldiers to the extent that even some of the heads of those countries were begging us to allow our military not only to take care of the situation there, but even including protecting them and their families. So, these are military personnel who are well trained, who were committed and well cared for in terms of their welfare, and indeed the equipment, arms, and ammunition and so on. So, we never had problems at that time. But in recent years, we have all these issues cropping up and it’s very, very unfortunate. We have seen many failures of our military and other security agencies. I see it as a big shame. It is unfortunate that we find ourselves in this mess, to the extent that we cannot protect our students. So, I believe what is key now is to have a president and commander-in-chief who is well respected by the military.
President Muhammadu Buhari is a former military leader, yet we have these security challenges. In specific terms, can you tell us how you intend to address the problem?
You see, I mentioned the issue of capacity. It is a big issue for me. I believe that if there is no capacity to handle any job it becomes a big problem. The military, as I told you, are in a very good position to handle this issue. But the way and manner that things are happening, I think, makes it very difficult for them to operate. There must be an issue of reward and punishment. We had service chiefs some years ago that Nigerians clamoured for their removal when there was obvious failure, and nothing really happened. And now I think they are ambassadors or something. The same in other security agencies. It’s difficult to remember anybody who was punished for a certain failure. And most of these failures that we’re talking about, are about lives of innocent Nigerians. As I said, the military or security agencies require some attention on the one hand, and on the other hand, they require certain rules and regulations. My friends who are ministers now, it’s like everybody is on their own. Every ministry is like a country. Nobody asks them ‘what are you doing?’ and ‘what have you not done?’
So, basically, you are saying that there’s no leadership in the country right now?
Well, there’s leadership, but I am not sure if they are doing the right thing.
With banditry and associated crimes making our country increasingly challenged security wise, we still want to know what a President Kwankwaso will do differently if elected next year
We need more military men and there are better ways of doing this beyond the conventional. I’m not sure if there is anybody who is watching and keeping his eyes on almost anything, including the military. Now the case where we find ourselves is that in the villages and towns, even in the cities, everybody knows the location, even the names of the bandits and their details. You don’t even need special intelligence to know that. It is common knowledge now that they’re all there. So, you see, there were people who started this banditry because they were angry with the system. And they felt that they were not consulted. They were not talked to any time they wanted to sit with the authorities. Some of them were purely based on frustration. Many of these young men and women are there, that was how it started. But along the line, it became obvious that even people who were not affected joined because it was a lucrative business. And every day it is becoming more lucrative.
What we know now is that those people who were abducted in the train attack must pay at least N100 million for them to be released. And if they get N100 million per head, you can imagine how many billions of Naira they would have collected from one operation and that is not to say tomorrow they will not go and pick other people. Kuje prison was attacked and many people, in fact all the bandits and terrorists were released. These things are happening, and they look like a joke or that they’re happening outside this country, especially to those who are not directly affected. Recently, I’m sure you must have watched it in one of the video clips, they are threatening to abduct our commander-in-chief. They didn’t say they would attack the train, but we were not surprised that they did, because there was just no protection. Nothing! We knew it was just a matter of time. Now even when the worst things happen, like the Kuje attack, like even the attack on the convoy of Mr. President, we cannot see any action being taken to ensure that it doesn’t happen again. The president will only express shock and it’s very unfortunate that we have found ourselves in this situation.
Let’s focus on public education. What’s your vision for education at the primary, secondary levels? And right now, university lecturers have been on strike for six months. How would you tackle this problem?
I am sure all of you are aware that we have a group that we call Kwankwansiya which is basically formed on the foundation of education and that is our strength. So, I am personally very passionate about the issue of education. That explains why when I had the opportunity to be governor of Kano, we decided to come up with a very strong policy on education. And the policy covered the area of primary up to tertiary level. And that’s why you often hear that my strength is in Kano because they are the people who know me best. So, in 1999, we introduced many things ranging from rehabilitation of all our classrooms, all our schools, built many houses for teachers and so on and so forth. We introduced what we call school feeding. Our schools for the eight years I was governor, were getting free books and all the primary schools, we were giving them two sets of uniforms to encourage children to go to school. I’m sure you know that many of our teachers in primary schools were not having the minimum requirement of NCE. We sent over 20,000 teachers for NCE in our colleges of education and Bayero University in Kano state, and we built thousands of classrooms. In my last years in office, there was no child in Kano of school age that could not get a classroom. We provided more than enough textbooks, exercise books, registers, everything, computers in many of the schools. We did similar things in the secondary level. Before I left, we built 44 and they were of high standards in terms of quality, boarding facilities, workshops, and so on. And I also built what we call school for Islamic Studies, because we realised many of our children were being sent outside the state for Almajiri and we had a law and it is still existing, banning Almajiri. We made sure that we didn’t have any political problem by stopping Almajiri and people gave us the maximum support. I built two universities, one in 2001, Kano University of Technology.
And when I went back in 2011, we built Northwest University. In addition to that, we built 26 institutes handling various areas. And when I was going, I realised not everybody could maintain them independently, so we handed many of them over to our two universities. We also came up with a policy involving universities like Ahmadu Bello University, Usman Danfodio University, and others. We built 300-bed hostels free of charge, just for them to give us maximum number of students to admit. In addition to that, we also selected private universities like one in Katsina, where we sent 412 students in four years. For Bell’s University in Ota, we sent 300 students, Crescent University we sent 200, Igbinedion University, we sent 300 and many others like that. All of them have, of course, graduated. Besides, while we were using the local, private and government universities plus our own two universities, we also had a special foreign training sponsorship, where we sent just over 3000 Kano residents. I use the word residents because there were people from everywhere, including the Southeast and Southsouth who benefitted because they were Kano residents.
This was Kano, just one of the 36 states in Nigeria. How do you tackle the challenge of education in the whole country?
It is the same. Sometimes I see some of my friends talking about what they will do when they become president. Don’t come and tell me what you will do. When you had an opportunity to serve before as governor, you didn’t do anything? Making mouth and shouting that you will do this and that makes no meaning. In 2023, we shouldn’t start experimenting with people because they can talk. The question we should be asking is, ‘Okay, when you had opportunity to serve as governor or vice president, tell us what you did. We want to know what you have done when you had an opportunity.’
Beyond the issue of education that you have referred to, what exactly is the Kwankwansiya movement about?
Kwankwaso is my village. I come from a village in Kano. And even though my father was the traditional ruler of the place, I lived with people around me who really needed attention and support. And from that village level to where I found myself in the civil service, I realised that there were many things that the government could do to help those people. Take primary school for instance. And then we have seen many women dying because of little things that a dispensary could have helped them with. In that my hometown in those days, during rainy season like this, there was no way we could visit the city of Kano. We are just about 25 kilometres away from the city but surrounded by rivers. Every year, every rainy season, many people die because canoes capsize. The experience of those days triggered my mind that there is a lot that government could do to help the people. That was why I decided to be part of local community to participate in self-help groups in my areas. At the end of the day, I also woke up as a child and young man to realise that Aminu Kano was there with us, and we were lucky that my hometown had a radio station. And every day we had one of the papers of those days, and it had to come to my village before it went to Kano city, because it was coming from Zaria. I developed political interest right from childhood as a very keen supporter of Aminu Kano who was always talking about the needy, the poor or talakawas as we call them. Even though I’m not a member of what they now call Peoples Redemption Party (PRP), but in the Second Republic, I was a member of PRP, and that’s where we got the red cap, white gown, and black shoe. Those were the colours of PRP. We still feel connected to what Aminu Kano stood for, even though he never had government that he could call his own, apart from being the commissioner or minister in those days. So, we felt that we should continue from where he stopped.
Aminu Kano was able to generate national interest and support. Wole Soyinka, Chinua Achebe, were members of his party, but you are more, so to speak, a Kano politician, a local champion. So, we wonder whether your vision is pan-Nigerian enough.
That is what our opponents are saying. If you want to know somebody, don’t see him in this room or in the airport and say, ‘I like him, he’s a good man or a bad man’. Go to his hometown, go to his village, and find out. Charity, as they say, begins from home. My politics and even support started from my ward. Then local government in a widely contested election, then constitutional conference, etc. The support is expanding like that. You see, I am one of the luckiest politicians because most people know that I have a strong base. For most politicians, they are not loved in their hometown. My case is completely different and that is because people believe in us. If you ask supporters of President Muhammadu Buhari, ‘What has he done?’, ‘Why do they love him?’, their response will be different from what I am telling you now. Ours is based on concrete achievements.
What is Buhari’s own based on?
I should ask you, but Buhari wouldn’t come and tell you how many students he sponsored, how many universities he built, and so on. But I must concede, many people, especially in the north love him.
But they call him Mai Gaskiya
They call him Mai Gaskiya (honest person), but I don’t go around telling anyone I am Mai Gaskiya. But if you think I am not Mai Gaskiya, bring one reason to dispute it. I have been in the field for 30 years now and people still believe in me. But our own is visible Gaskiya. If you say I am not, then prove it.
Can you tell us more about your ideas on investment in human capital development, and why you believe Nigerians should trust you
We have millions of Diasporan Nigerians, they are all over the world and many of them are in diverse fields, including medicine, technology, teaching and so on and so forth. These are people that must be encouraged to come back home. I cannot stop talking about Kano because we did some of these things. Meanwhile, on infrastructure, there’s no doubt about the fact that it is very critical. You cannot expect quality education when you camp pupils under the tree or where you have 200 instead of 30 students per classroom and so on. We must address those issues. But education and job opportunities are a package and those are the things we plan for.
The Nigerian economy is in dire straits. Most indicators are in the red. The minister of finance said recently that our debt service was more than the revenue that came in. So, what is your plan to tackle all these challenges?
As I mentioned earlier on, all these issues are intertwined. If farmers cannot go to farm, if businessmen cannot go to the next village or city and buy things and sell, it becomes a huge problem. It affects the economy directly and the issues that we see with the economy today are also part of the leadership capacity. If you have money or borrowed money, and you just throw it to human beings, whether Nigerians or Europeans or anybody, people will be very happy to help themselves. That’s why the international community, especially advanced countries, use technology. And I can tell you, we were the first government in this country, including the federal government, to start e-payments. We were the first in this country to ensure that all these lapses, losses, fraud, and so on, are minimised. So, what we see today in this country, in my opinion, is a situation where the government will borrow money, just send it out there and allow people to use their discretion on what to do with that money. And that is why most of the money is not going to where they should go and the leader of a state or the federal government must be up and doing.
Look at the stories we hear about oil being stolen in the sea, which is very unfortunate, percentages are mentioned. Some of them huge amounts of any percentage of the total amount of oil that we’re pumping out just going into the drains. So, there are many wastages that the government must keep its eyes on. Meanwhile, the government must ensure that those who are supposed to pay taxes do so. And all these put together of course will affect other areas like the exchange rate that we see today. And that has to do with many other factors like manufacturing. Most of the things that we have today are being imported using foreign exchange to purchase even things that we can produce in the village.
The nation is facing a full-blown energy crisis. The power sector is on life support, no fuel, no diesel, and there is fuel subsidy that comes at a huge cost to the nation. What do you intend to do about it?
First, there is a need to look at the issue of the laws in this sector, it should be made flexible. Now, I want to at this point say that when I was governor, I selected two out of 23 dams that we have in Kano, and we installed turbines. In fact, when I was leaving government, the only major work that was left was transmission and I left $43 million in an account to complete the transmission. Unfortunately, up till today, we have not seen electricity in Kano. I don’t know what is happening. Meaning that state governments, individuals, companies and so on should be encouraged to produce electricity and make it flexible also by law, to put it in the system, as we have seen in many parts of the world, where even the universities and other institutions are producing electricity to use for themselves. And if there is an excess, they sell it to the national grid. Government must make it flexible. In terms of generation and distribution, we can also see areas where we have a competitive advantage. In northern Nigeria, we have a lot of sunlight, so solar can be very useful. In other parts of the north, we have places like Mambilla that should be harnessed and be used for electricity, agriculture and so on. We have seen other parts of the country where they have gas, and even coal. And I remember in those days, we were using coal, but because of one reason or the other, that has been stopped and we all now rely on probably one source of electricity in this country. So, I believe that there is a need for flexibility. What is important is adequate and of course, affordable electricity that will boost the economy.
There are issues surrounding the use of fossil fuels, carbon emissions and the rest. If by 2030 we no longer have the luxury of using fossils, how would you react?
I am aware of the issues around climate change but all these Western countries leading the campaign are producing all sorts of things that are not the best for the environment. These are the countries we buy our items from, but they are still using these fuels even though they say they are phasing them out. We are a developing country that contributes little or nothing to this problem even though I believe we must be part of the solution. But the situation where we have at hand now is that we must use whatever we have to make a difference in the lives of our people. And when we reach a certain level, then we start taking all these details about climate change into consideration.
What’s your position on the payment of fuel subsidy?
Everybody knows that there is no way we can comfortably continue with subsidy as it stands today. The only thing for us to do is to see what can be done to cushion the effects of the consequences of removing the subsidy.
How do you intend to ensure the inclusion of women and young people in government?
I am one of those who encourage education and particularly girl child education. In Kano, we had programmes directly targeted at women and girls. There was a particular programme of 300 medical doctors, and only 45 were men. And all the female students completed the programme. The long-term programme we had for those doctors was to mainly to make sure that it is only a woman that would treat women in our hospitals in Kano state. Again, on gender, for the eight years I was governor, each local government was allocated N1 million to train women in various skills and we gave them N10,000 grant. Every month, we selected 100 women, trained them trades and gave them seed capital. So, we can go on and on about what we have done for women and children in Kano. In fact, women and youths coincidentally are our strength in Kano. But I also understand the challenge. May be due to culture or religion, many were not coming out for political positions. You hardly got people who could easily be appointed as commissioner of education, or even commissioner of women affairs in the system. So, I always encourage and tell women that ‘look, don’t wait for any percentage’. I didn’t wait for percentage, otherwise I would have been in my village now. I’m not looking for percentage. I am working to ensure that I reach where I want to be. We need to encourage women to go to school and I am happy many of them are going to school because now when you go to our universities, you find that the majority are women. So, we are getting there. The next thing is for them to be in various areas, including politics.
If elected, how do you intend to reform the health infrastructure in Nigeria?
There are many things that should be done right, from the primary health care or even dispensaries that we have in terms of training the personnel at all levels, in case of provision of all equipment, drugs, and so on and so forth. And I think you are talking of the tertiary level now, if you’re talking about people going abroad. Now you see Nigerians in all fields, including health and it requires leadership by example, require support from the government at the centre. When I say leadership by example, if you’re a president, for example, why do you always have to travel abroad for everything that you require? If a good president is suffering from any disease, I believe that you are in the position to import anybody, either Nigerian or non-Nigerian, to coincidentally have a hospital in the villa. Why do you have to go there? You bring them not only for yourself and your family, but you also open it to everybody who would go there, either as government officials or people who can pay depending on the circumstance. I had a friend who has a big hospital in India. He visited the North and said we didn’t have good MRI at that time. Then he took me to the place, and showed me how much he bought one, and he said it cost $2 million. Now at that time, I know many Nigerians to whom $2 million is not much. So, if for example, you organise your healthcare properly, there are many people who can invest. In fact, we have so many people who are outside this country in the diaspora, that we can invite with good incentives. I lived in the UK for about 10 years. Now, I cannot remember the last time I travelled to Europe. Because, anytime I remember my own experience, the weather is just enough to say to myself, ‘stay at home’. So, all those who are in Europe, America in cold weather, or in Kuwait, Middle East, where the temperature is boiling, they need just small incentives for them to come back home. You don’t even need other nationals. I am talking about Nigerian professionals that are everywhere. All they need is a good environment for them to come back and improve the system in Nigeria.
I also know many people who can invest in the health sector because there is a lot of money in it. And all this medical tourism that we see is because they can also see our leader going to hospital in London. So, I believe that stopping all this mess that we see in the name of medical tourism is a very easy and simple thing to stop with the right leadership.